we cannot afford a $4 billion a day deficit and trillion dollar plus deficits every single year. we just cannot afford it. so it requires thoughtfulness and it requires that we are going to have a plan to work through this. i think that that's where we as republicans are headed. >> congresswoman marsha blackburn, thank you for taking the time to talk to us. michael, let me get back to you in this meeting that speaker boehner is going to be having and convince that he's going to have to do to conservative members of his party. how tough a sell job? >> i think it's tough. one reason it's tough, i was struck by the congresswoman's comments. i think there is fundamental disagreement about what it would mean not to just have a clean raising of the debt ceiling. so, in other words, if i heard the congresswoman correctly, i think she was reflecting a sense among some people that you could shut down the government, stop paying some bills, pay other bills, pay interest on the debt, for instance, and we could kind of get through it that way. i think a lot of -- a lot of other republicans,